Clickimin Wall Future

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Al
    Keymaster
    Post count: 860
    #10484 |

    We had an interesting meeting last night with the Clickimin, and we could do with organising a Committee meeting to discuss a way forward, but it would be good if folk could start the discussion and ideas on here. Bare in mind this is a public forum! šŸ˜‰

    Route Setting

    The Click have been advised by their H&S advisors that a nominated company with insurance and competence should do all the wall maintenance including changing routes. They can then share some of the liability. Scott plans to come up in January to change these. He has 3 days booked. We have pointed out that:

    1. There’s no “qualification” needed to set routes, but can see their point on liability
    2. If someone else sets the routes our main concern are number of routes and spread of grades
    3. We need to be in discussions with Scott beforehand to discuss what’s needed and can be available to assist if needed (e.g. stripping the wall)

    Click agreed and will make sure we are involved with this, but it seems the decision has been made that we cannot set routes (on our own) any more. We could possibly do it with Scott?

    Harnesses & Gear

    Again they have been dredging up H&S laws and legislation and are concerned with lending out harnesses. Technically, harnesses should be checked every 6 months, and also “visually checked” prior to every use. We all know how simple and minor that it, but it has got them scared and seems to be the driving force towards their decision to remove all harnesses and belay gear and NOT HAVE THEM AVAILABLE FOR HIRE! (The club may be able to have their existing ones). Points were:

    1. It won’t massively affect the club nights (although we may need to tighten up on newcomers) but we said it would take out most casual bookings.
    2. The casual bookings on the wall are minimal so they aren’t too concerned about the drop in income from this.
    3. We all agreed that the current situation of “help yourself” to harnesses isn’t the best.
    4. Click don’t have the staff experience or storage space to hire out these items to every booking.
    5. We pointed out that “inspecting” harnesses can be taught to all staff very easily and so shouldn’t be an issue, but they were still reluctant.

    It seems that the decision has been made to remove harnesses and belay devices at the wall.

    Shoes

    They have bought new shoes, but don’t want to put them out as they’ll be trashed in no time again. They plan to have a locker system where you can pay to hire out shoes. We didn’t discuss this much, but in light of having no harnesses to hire, it seems a bit pointless to hire out shoes! Maybe we could take care of them and save them the cost of lockers!

    Inductions

    There were suggestions that the club take over the running of inductions (and make some money from it).

    In Summary

    The clear intention of the Click is to continue to run the wall, but they are nervous of it. They seem to be keen on us pretty much taking over the running of it (everyone has to come through us to be inducted and use the wall). That’s quite a serious thing for us to do, and I’d be worried about it being the focus of the club again. Perhaps only running it 8 months of the year would help that. I’m sure we can use it to our advantage somehow though with a bit of thought.

    Your thoughts please?! If folk are free for a meeting next Monday 22nd we could discuss it before the wall over a brew at Mareeel? (still good to get some initial discussions on here though)

    Fat Git
    Participant
    Post count: 342
    #10486 |

    Concern over route setting sounds a bit paranoid to me. I don’t think their H&S advisors understand the risks (or perhaps they’ve had their ears bent by someone looking for a job setting routes) so I suggest we write them a risk assessment.

    Risk – route is too hard for participants.
    Outcome – climber falls off and is held by belayer.
    Consequence – mild peril, small risk of grazed knee.

    Risk – hold not properly bolted on.
    Outcome – hold rotates, climber falls off and is held by belayer.
    Consequence – mild peril, small risk of grazed knee.

    So long as the belayer is competent, the ropes and harnesses are sound and the top fittings secure the risk is trivial. Of course, any failure in these could make matters more serious, but this has nothing to do with route setting.

    Al
    Keymaster
    Post count: 860
    #10487 |

    Yes we did try to point out that the holds are not part of the structure of the wall and are not part of the safety system, but it seems that decision had been made.

    Fat Git
    Participant
    Post count: 342
    #10488 |

    Then we need to speak to their H&S advisor. Who might that be? Can we guess?

    Al
    Keymaster
    Post count: 860
    Fat Git
    Participant
    Post count: 342
    #10490 |

    “our highly qualified health and safety professionals” (who know all about the law and nothing about assessing risks)
    .

    longa
    Participant
    Post count: 472
    #10491 |

    With regard to route-setting, the point at issue is not that we might create dangerous routes – there’s no such thing on a climbing wall.

    It’s that the act of route-setting is outside normal wall usage and constitutes “work at height” as defined under WAHR. So they’re strictly correct in preventing us from doing it. In fact, if a hold works loose we should leave it and bring someone in to tighten it, a “reductio ad absurdam” I know, but that’s the way it may go.

    We do our best to stay safe when route-setting but holds and tools do get dropped etc. so there is a real hazard.

    Andrew
    Keymaster
    Post count: 412
    #10492 |

    I know logic like this doesn’t factor at all into this nonsense, but who is at risk when we’re route setting!? Only ourselves. But then maybe we need protecting from ourselves.

    I think we all got the impression at the meeting that most of the important decisions had already been made, unfortunately.

    How about a discussion at Mareel before the wall tonight?

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